Interviewing with 15 people on one zoom call - Saad Riaz

00:00

It's difficult to face 15 different people questioning you. There's lot of perspective coming in, a lot of different opinions.

00:09

So you grow up in Islamabad, but you're now in Berlin. What's the story?

00:16

Yes. I grew up in Islamabad, I went for university in Lahore. I worked there for like four-ish years in Pakistan, and then I started looking for opportunities abroad, because the market is not so mature there and there's not... There are a lot of opportunities, but not what exposure we get either inside Europe or inside Americas. So that naturally moved me to apply for positions in Europe, and then I think it was like two, three months of just looking for the right potential opportunity. And then I got a job in Berlin, and am now moving for another opportunity which is in Munich. It's remote as well, but I have to go to meet the team and just lead them maybe once a month, or maybe once in two months.

01:15

Were you considering any other positions at the same time, and how many, and what stages were you roughly at?

01:21

Yes, there were a couple of positions, and I got like five offers at the end of the day, not at once but at different points in time. Two places, we couldn't negotiate on the salary part. And the rest three, that was a difficult decision to make in between, but was then primarily what was the right fit, and where I can find the most challenging part, and where there can be more growth potentially. You never know. Startups, they fail as well, they pivot sometime in the future, but potentially this gave me a feel that yes, maybe they can.

02:04

Where did you start, to whittle down between the three that you had at the end there?

02:10

Starting from this point that... How would my team look like, in the next challenge? This was one of the part. Second, what problem they are trying to tackle, in which domain they are. Third, how convenient they are for me to work with them.

02:34

Got it. And you said that there was a point at which you felt like you could make a decision, because you really... There was something that you felt with the team that you've decided to join. Tell me more about that.

02:50

It was like an open session. They just wanted me to maybe take any piece of code, my... any previous work or something, and then just present to the team, and this gives a conversation starter to everyone, for all the team. Obviously you are meeting like 15 new people in a same Zoom call, and then...

03:15

Wow. You had 15 people in one Zoom call?

03:18

Yeah.

03:19

That's mad.

03:20

Yeah. And then obviously it was an open session, and then everyone is asking me questions because potentially I'm going in a position where I'll be not leading the entire team, but it would be leading seven or eight people amongst them. So it was a opportunity to see [inaudible 00:03:42] for them as well, to see who is coming with them to be part of their team. And yeah, that's something...

03:52

That's crazy. I've never heard of an interview process involving 15 people in one meeting. And I guess, it sounds like it was almost like... The way that you phrase it, it was more of a conversation than it was an interview. I'm not surprised if there was 15 of you.

04:09

Yeah. And then luckily the thing which went in my favor was that the CTO, after I accepted offer and all, he told me that this was a... We go with every candidate the same, we go over this process with every candidate. And I got really lucky that 15 out of 15 gave me a thumbs up. I was like, "Wow, I did something amazing."

04:37

Geez Louise. I can't get over the volume of people on that interview. How did you create a connection in the conversation with 15 people at once? How was that not overwhelming.

04:55

It was nervous in the start, but then it was like two, three people introducing theirself, and then everyone introduced, and then I introduced myself, some open questions on the demographics and where I am living, how does it feel, things like that. And then I said, "Okay, I've prepared a small presentation for all of you to then question me, and then we can have a question and answer session, and then you can ask any question." So this gave, I think, them a bit confidence as well to start from some point, to [inaudible 00:05:34] a little bit of scrutinizing me, to see how do I react on different situations. But I think from there it went for the next one and a half hour or so. The session went well. And I think that was essentially for me a deciding factor, pivoting factor as well, that I was like, "I got to meet the whole team at one conversation. I don't know 100%, but I have got the vibe of how the team would look like."

06:10

Sounds like quite a meaningful experience, in a way.

06:12

Yep. I think it was. It was new for me as well. And I told them that this thing really played a major factor in deciding and opting for you people, apart from all the technical processes they had.

06:33

You said that you, in some way, gave them a chance to ask you questions, and it sounded like that was a way of you saying, in some ways you opened up a part of you in that process to them, for them to dissect in some way.

07:00

Just a very little background. So there was a product which I made, like a whole architecture [inaudible 00:07:09] and eventually I structured a team to get going with it, and eventually now it's in production use in hospitals. So I gave the whole overview of what the problem was, what were the challenges, briefly. Obviously the product was [inaudible 00:07:27] scale, but I've kind of summarized it. And then I asked them to ask me questions because, like any other person, there were the questions building up, when was going through the whole summary obviously I cannot answer 100% of the things. So that was giving them some position in... Not going very technical because there were product owners, they were scrum masters there who are not related to hardcore engineering. So this gave them the chance of questioning as well. So this made the session more interactive.

08:06

And what made the session more meaningful to you? Other than the fact that there are 15 people in the room, what made it more meaningful to you?

08:19

I think when you are talking to someone, you are trying to gauge the personality, and as you say that there's a first impression of whoever you are talking to. So gauging all those feedbacks, trying to process it within the call, and even after the call, what type of questions the other person was asking, what type of things he was trying to gauge from my side, this reflected of what things they are looking for, and this gave me a meaningful experience. So for example, I think there was... Yeah, there was one person who just asked me, what do you do? Do you play any sports? Or what do you do after your office work? It was completely out of context, but this gave me a sense that he was trying to see how I'm trying to gelling in, or do I have any other hobbies, side hobbies? Which is... You are trying to look for an ideal candidate to be a complete package, not a nerdy goose.

09:34

Yeah. What responsibility do you have in those conversations to make them free flowing? There's a responsibility from the company to go beyond the code, but there's also a responsibility from you to share your story in a way that's open. And I wonder what you think your responsibility is in those moments.

10:05

I think for me it would be, whatever question is being posed, being empathetic. Just answer it openly, if you agree, if you don't agree. Just be yourself and see what other word you can say, what counter-question the other person has, but just be yourself. And if you don't agree, just politely tell them that this is the point, you cannot agree with it, and let's move on. Let's agree to disagree.

10:37

Did you find it harder or easier to be your truest self in a group interview or in an individual interview?

10:46

It's definitely harder to be yourself in a group. There's lot of perspective coming in, a lot of different opinions, comparing it with the panel of two people maybe, or three people max. So yes, definitely I'll agree with you. This was my first experience where it was harder, as well.

11:06

Wow. Yeah. It makes it even more interesting to me how the 15 person interview ended up being such a memorable, meaningful moment for you, despite the fact that it's harder for you to be yourself in those moments. Why don't you think we do it so often?

11:21

It's difficult to face 15 different people questioning.

11:26

And that didn't scare you. It's almost like, on the one hand, it's great, because they're embracing you in that moment together as a team, and on the other hand, it's like, "Oh my God, if we're going to be doing this to everyone where we put them in front of 15 people... Crikey. Is that the culture I want?"

11:39

Yeah. No, I think it would be something [inaudible 00:11:43] maybe five, seven people, maybe some other who are just introducing themselves, and they're only passively looking.

11:55

We all have very different perspectives on what our best work is, and what that means to us as individuals. How did that influence your search this time round?

12:11

I think that was the most influential part, because unfortunately I had a very toxic [inaudible 00:12:21] in my previous company who hired me. I don't know how did we go on the same board in the start, but he wasn't open to the company, and company was having real troubles with him. Two, three months down the [inaudible 00:12:41] I realized that yes, that has started to become with me as well, those all same scenario. Obviously I was new, I was trying to adapt to the company culture and trying to see what I have to do, what I have to deliver. But then those things started popping up.

12:59

And no surprise that getting 15 people in the room gives you the glimpse of how actually, maybe where they work is not like where you've been.

13:11

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. A little glimpse would also be a kind of satisfying.

13:15

Saad, I've loved learning more about your story and your journey, and I for one am so, so happy that they interviewed you with... Put you in front of 15 other people. Really interesting. Thank you so much for sharing.