Moments of brightness - Daniel Woolfson

00:00

I think that the way professional football is managed is a better model. Every interview process I've experienced is testing the last 3%. That's what they're actually testing, not testing the 97 because that's quite easy. You can do that quite quickly and there's a tools out there to support it. The really great hires is the last 3%.

00:24

Have you ever thought about that type of thing or in general? I guess how you approach work?

00:32

I think about this a lot. I think about this a lot on behalf of other people. So I view work as a learning journey, and it isn't about which employer you are currently employed with. It isn't about your salary. It isn't about any perk of any contract or any engagement. It's about the longer term where you are right now, in terms of now I say learning journey. I'm giving you an indication of what my intrinsic motivation is, because mine's all about learning. But everyone's on a journey, and I believe it's linked to what their intrinsic motivation is. So for instance, if I look back at my career, I can see I started out as a software developer.

01:24

That didn't last very long because to be honest, I wasn't a great software developer that lasted three or four years, but then I got into management and my mind lit up. It was like, okay, so maybe I'm next onto my learning journey, learning how to manage people and to lead. And then I just kept building teams and every company I worked for, if I look back they were answering the need for my next brain lighting up moment for the next-

02:01

Yeah okay. Love it.

02:01

12, 18 months. And it's that moment of insight or moment of excitement or brightness that I think for me, there are cycles in that journey. And if the employer doesn't maintain that moment of brightness and it dims, then that's when I think people look because it's not answering the needs of their journey.

02:29

How do you understand your own intrinsic motivation?

02:32

Being self aware is a good skill. And what I'm learning is many people are not self aware. Many people are ultra self-aware and most people are kind of in the middle. So I choose a sport which is called badminton and for some reason, I want to become a coach within badminton. And I go on a course, I go on a training course to become a coach. And I sat there and I think "My goodness, this has got nothing to do with badminton whatsoever. This is about health, nutrition, teaching techniques." And I'm thinking, why am I here? Why am I sat in a room full of learning how to teach? And it wasn't until when I did the practical of the exam to the coaching course for badminton that I realized that, okay, I'm practicing teaching something I love. And I started to coach juniors and I just couldn't stop.

03:36

And I realized that what I'd rushed into was, there was something that I had a skill I very high peak of skill, something I was passionate about. And I found the third pillar, which was teaching. So I'm high in skill in something, but I want to share it. So that kind of indicated to me outside of work, I want to share what I've learned. So I want to gain the knowledge and then I want to share it. I looked at that model and I thought, "Okay, look at what I've done professionally. It seems to be going that way as well, in terms of I've learned to be a software engineer. Great. I now want to help people deliver software in terms of work with teams, build teams."

04:28

I set up the learning community networks within my home city. I lead tech conferences, organize tech conferences. Why am I putting in my voluntary time into organizing tech conferences with others and the cycles just happening again? And so that's where I started to realize that ... And I had some time with a coach as well to help me realize this, to fit it all together. So I realized that I'm someone who thrives from learning and then sharing that learning. I build structures for people to learn with them.

05:07

As you said that it sounded like there had been moments in your past where the same thing had come up over and over again.

05:14

Well, why was it? I still think it's that moment of brightness in terms of if 18 months or two years, where you get that bug and you're working out a strategy and then you're implementing that strategy. If that's not lit up again, then that's kind of that engagement cycle. But be the kind of the motivation cycle are learning, being self aware about who you are, could be within that cycle. But it could also be in longer cycles, like life moments, having children could be one or picking a new spot. Like for instance, I'm drilling on spot, but I think it's a good analogy to what I'm trying to say. During lockdown, I couldn't play badminton because indoor sport was banned. It was part of a well thought out initiative to help the country, which is fine.

06:08

But I took up tennis because it's outdoors and my goodness and my competitive, I'm getting coaching and trying to get on team. And I want to become a tennis coach. I didn't play tennis two years ago. I played badminton for 30 years and from coached my sons to junior county level. But now I'm a tennis player and I'm going on the same cycle again within two years. I am predicting, if you speak to me again in two years, I'll be a tennis coach. I guarantee it, but I'm comfortable with that because I know the cycle is happening again.

06:42

It sounds like you're comfortable with that cycle.

06:46

Yeah, well, sorry. When I sound comfortable with that, people always wonder, what am I going to do next? What's I'm going to do next with my personal challenge with my life, with my goals. But if you start to realize these patterns, you can then be comfortable that, that's your identity. And as I say, I'm comfortable that I know that I'm going to check the long tennis association website for a coaching course every six months. Because when one comes up in Yorkshire on a few weekends, I can attend. I'll probably book on to it, but I do that without realizing, but I'm comfortable with that. So I'm not fighting it.

07:26

In the same way in a professional career, it's the same thing that I kind of know that every 18 months, if you don't have the brightness moment, I'm comfortable that you might start to look, but it's your personal responsibility and your employer to try and seek out the brightness moments. It doesn't come to you. It's all about being comfortable with, okay, this is how I'm feeling, but then how do you deal with it? It's a mitigation to find opportunities.

07:56

What is that moment of brightness?

07:58

The phrase, what keeps you up at night? That is not the way I view that phrase. It's what gets you up in the morning. Nothing should keep you up at night. Sleep should be, and rest should be a thing. It should be what gets you out of bed? What motivates you? What are you thinking about to motivate you for that day? If it's keeping up at night, then you are worried. If it's getting you from the morning, you are motivated. And when you approach that moment where you can uniquely apply your identity to a situation that requires those leaders to be pulled, and those configuration of the situation to be applied, to get an outcome, if you are the one of many who can uniquely apply that outcome, just like life skills outcome.

08:55

Then I think that's a moment of brightness because you think, I can do this. I can have an effect, I can help the outcome. And then your intrinsic motivation comes in and learning. That's a learning opportunity. Maybe I can assimilate skill or knowledge, and then I can pass that on. Again, speaking about my own identity there.

09:21

When you've looked for work in the past, how have you optimized for those moments of brightness?

09:30

The pandemic was a unique opportunity for me because I'd always fancied working remotely, not the fact that I was working remotely, but challenging my leadership skills. And I'd done face to face management for 15 years prior. I thought, how could I challenge myself even more? How could I intensify? Get the moment, brighten the challenge. And I thought, I could work them remotely, but I've never had the courage to do them. And the pandemic forced the situation onto us, all of us. Which I thought, if I don't do it now, I'm never going to do it. And so I applied for a only a role and became the manager of a large software team. And since then I've been enjoying working remotely and really getting that bright feeling. That was an example in terms of situational. So how do you optimize that moment of brightness?

10:37

This situation, the environment changed my behavior to look for other opportunities, something I wouldn't looked for before. And I found a bright light shining there. I think environment is important to appreciate because before then, if you look at my career history, everything is York, U.K., pretty much a home grown lad focusing on York, very local. But now I've got the cultural experience. Again, I was very fortunate to try out remote leadership, have a common subject, sense the culture. What I'm going to say is how to optimize the brightness opportunity, got to tune in. You've really got to get on the wavelength of what you're trying to achieve. So if there's no common subject, find a common subject. If you are struggling to latch onto that common subject, maybe that path isn't for you, its got to feel natural. Its got to be part of low energy, emitting from yourself as an individual, because you're almost practicing to be in that environment yourself.

11:52

As you spoke about the journey that you've been on during COVID, reminded me of artificial beginnings and how we generally in nature, don't have too many new beginnings. We're kind of bored and then we die, and we create these structures around us, like years, for example, when we have a new year. That's a bit of an artificial beginning that forces us to rethink how we approach things. We go and get fit, or we start writing or whatever it is. And that artificial beginning in some ways compensates for a lack of courage sometimes because it forces us to go and do something that we will have wanted to do for a while. Why do you think that you waited until the pandemic to make that decision where it's kind of forced upon you if you like, rather than almost instinctively from the insight choose to do it?

12:48

Generational behavior. So I think I'm generation X. I think I am. Where I'm told that the office routine 9 to 5 is kind of ingrained in you. It's some kind of a thing you do. So you've got to fight against that behavior. There was that to overcome quite local prior to that, my focus was local. So whether it's tech conferences, our employers had a very good knowledge, comfort zone. It's often comfort zone here. Very good knowledge of local employers, local people, and almost the brand and business I was in, was local. I had to look, so whereas my outlook was others.

13:32

You have to introspectively look about how am I going to develop myself, and to change, to fight against what you do in terms of the environment you ... I'm saying it now out of knowledge of what I was facing, then I don't know how I felt, but changing your environment is a big thing. I don't underestimate how people are feeling, who had to work remotely, who never knew whether they were going back to the office or not. Because I had the advantage that I knew I was staying at home because it was a 100% remote. And so I could plot a path. I could plot my journey.

14:13

I was quite lucky in that regard, but changing stasis is really difficult. And I think it does need, well you've then called them artificial events or artificial boundaries. I think it was a environmental opportunity that feels something that I'd always wanted to do. Whether or not it's a parent who encourages you or a friend, or an event. It doesn't have to be new year to make you do things. I've never really celebrated new year for that regard, because I tend to generate my own artificial events, whether it's a gold board.

14:52

And as you make these decisions about where to spend your time and what to pursue, what time period do you use in order to make that decision? And I guess whereabouts is your horizon as you make that call.

15:11

So entirely depends on the extrinsic pressures. So if it's financial, then that helps to speed things up but let's say it's not financial.

15:20

Got to do it. Yeah.

15:21

Got to do it. But if it's not financial, if it's not based on relationships, that's another pressure, which is important. So I'm going to say, I'm going to answer this if it's not based on relationships, I would say that it's in the equivalent. Obviously you are sat at a station and you are sat on the platform and you're just watching trains coming to the station and you just watch them stop. You think, shall I board this train? No, I think I'll wait for the next one, when it moves off. And you kind of waiting for the right look of train, whether it's the right seats or the right price or the right destination, that's the way I view it. And actual timeframes. I don't think it actually matters because I've learned, I've seen far too many people enter the wrong journey and you exit it at some point.

16:18

And it's an undetermined point but if the journey's not that ... I have put most respect for anybody in talent acquisition, because they're not judging. They are trying to understand whether this journey is correct for you. That's all they're trying to do. And yes. So questions, assessments, informal chats, all these things. It's just, is this the right train for you to depart on or ride on or drive or build or repair? That's what they're trying to do for the candidates benefit.

16:56

How do you encourage that type of thinking in people who are just starting out or are perhaps halfway through their journey?

17:04

So in the first tech conference in 2018, we brought together communities of 90 people. And in the second one prior to the pandemic, starting in 2019. I opened a conference and I told a story to someone the other day that what I do is, I don't plan what I'm going to say until I know what I'm going to say. And I left my opening keynote for the conference, and I only got it 20 minutes before. And before I would've thought, well, that's not very planned. You are preparing for that opportunity but I knew that I was that invested in this event and this mission and course that I knew I'd find the say at the right time.

17:49

And 20 minutes before I realized what I was going to say and what I said was, I said, "Thank you for coming back to York TechFest 2019. What I'd like to focus on is if you were here last time, think about what you've learned, your personal learning journey to where you are now. It is not where the York Developers have assisted you in this. This is the benchmark of where you were and where you are now. Are you satisfied with it? Do you want to repeat that learning journey, accelerate it for the next year? So when we meet the York TechFest 2020, we can identify it again."

18:30

When you had the moment where people ... When you shared that message with people, and there were some people who may have progressed over the last year, but there may have also been some people who may have not progressed. What were the main reasons why people didn't?

18:47

Procrastination is a word that I'm applying is a generalistic term. I'm not saying that people came to me saying, "I'm a procrastinator, or I talk myself out of it." So the feedback I'm getting is that people have this self-awareness of what they want to do, but there's always a reason to talk themselves out of it. So it comes back to things I may have touched already in terms of whether it's financial, parental relationship, employer, energy, medical. We could go on. And what I've noticed is, is when I formed the volunteer communities people have ever. Sometimes people want to organize a group, do speaking, sometimes they need to disappear and people disappear for about six months. It's really quite regular essentially people may be quite active, but then they just disappear. And when they come back, it's like, "Hi, how are you? Yeah. Have to solve these things out."

19:52

The intrinsic motivation is still there to be part of these groups, but it seems to be like a set period of about, it's never two months, and it's never 12. It seems to be about that four to seven months just from experiential experience. So it seems like life does get in the way and this is why I don't ... It's a volunteer community. It's not an employer with a contract. It's do what you need to do. You can exert energy or exert your identity onto getting the outcome. Yeah. Quite interesting I never thought about that.

20:34

How long do you think someone should commit to a job for?

20:40

Fantastic question. Okay. So I have this vision in my head that I'm convinced, it's going to go this way, but I have no idea how it can get this way. I think that the way professional football is managed is a better model in terms of you have players who in a peak of skill. And it's not just about skill, it's about attitude, it's about where they are right now, culture. Managers change and you see a culture when managers change where they sell player on, and it's kind of understood as a transfer market. And it's not a to do it's not a thing, but it's kind of, if the cap doesn't fit in terms of, if the player isn't like that company right now just move on. They are still a fantastic footballer still at the top of their game. But when you at professional level, it's the last 3% that matters.

21:41

It's isn't how you get up on a morning, it's how you view life. That can be difference of winning a top league or not. And so therefore, the world of work, when I just see peoples who the bright light is dinning in their role. I'm thinking go the transfer market. But this is the thing I can't link to how employment is structured today, to how it needs to be. There needs to be almost like a understood place where you go to be a shot window. And again, these are terms I'm not perfected. So forgive me if they're not formal where you can just transfer to another team and play for that team for a bit until the culture, the last 3% is no longer effective because you have the skill is not about evaluating skills. That's only the first stage.

22:38

Every interview process I've experienced is testing the last 3%. That's what they're actually testing and not testing the 97 because that's quite easy. You can do that quite quickly. And there tools out there to support it, the really great hires, is the last 3%. And that's what I think the football transfer market is. That's the reason why it's there. It's an understood way because to get peak performance, you have to have an understood exchange, a financial exchange, an accepted culture that allows success at an elite level.

23:20

I don't think I've ever thought of work as so closely associated to sport before. Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom, Daniel, and I wish you and everyone in York all the best over the next year.