Progressing through problems - Lucy Minton

00:00

It's just making sure you're always putting the business first and you're always trying to solve the problems the business needs you to solve. I think in a startup, all of the stuff that people care about in the normal career world, just do not apply.

00:15

Should you decide to pursue a fixed outcome so a job or should you decide to pursue a journey and a path?

00:27

Yeah, I think it's really interesting and I think it does come down to what's important to you, I guess. I think particularly when you get to my age, lots of people have a bit of a realization where they acknowledge that actually work has of a different meaning to them than they thought it did. I think at that point it becomes a job and they're more on the career path than the passion path and that's okay too.

00:54

I think for me, that was never the path that would've worked for me because what's important to me is always feeling really fulfilled by the day to day, always feeling like I'm learning and always feeling like I'm solving problems. But for some people, they just want to create. They want a viable path that will give them as much time and resources to enjoy the stuff outside of work and that's really, really viable as well. I think it's a bit of self-reflection around what's actually important to you at the very core. Sometimes it just takes people a little bit of time to really work that out I think.

01:30

How did that take you to JustPark?

01:33

The JustPark choice was, again, going back to this 'I'm really interested in setting up a thing, a business, something myself at some point' and I want to feel equipped to do that. I think the JustPark journey for me was a super early stage business so I was the first real employee there. I thought the concept was pretty cool, really tangible, the sort of thing you can explain to your grandma, which is always a tick for me.

02:01

And they can't park so ...

02:03

Well, exactly. I felt like it would be the best opportunity to learn about how to do it in the future. Yeah, I just went with a really open mind and always thought about the goal of learning about how to solve problems in a business context, how to understand how to grow a startup. I think I ended up having a really incredible professional and personal experience there where the growth curve was just so high and the opportunities that the business gave me was just so big, far bigger than I even expected going into it, or even was hoping for. It exceeded all of those things.

02:46

How did you find it?

02:47

Just on a random job board to be honest.

02:49

Really?

02:50

Yeah, it just literally around a startup-focused job board. At the time, I was pretty early in my career. The risk was pretty low. I just thought, well, the risk of moving and going back to what I was doing before, that's always a possibility if it doesn't work out. If I don't do this now, the risk of my time being spent not doing what it is that is driving me towards my goal is higher than the risk of it going wrong so let's jump in.

03:22

What happened?

03:22

What happened at JustPark?

03:23

Yeah, because I'm like, okay, here we go, right, so business development, head of partnerships.

03:29

Yeah, yeah.

03:29

General manager, commercial director.

03:31

It was a journey. Yeah.

03:33

All from first employee.

03:34

The reason it went that way and I moved the way I did is I don't want this to come across as having an ego in any way, but it's just making sure you're always putting the business first and you're always trying to solve the problems the business needs you to solve. I think in a startup, all of the stuff that people care about in the normal career world just do not apply. If you start worrying about job titles or you start worrying about progressing versus somebody else in the business, or being in a meeting that other people are in that you feel like you should be in and getting caught up in all of that stuff, you are focusing on the wrong things.

04:15

I think if you've got the right attitude, but being in an early stage business and obviously the business needs to have a product that's viable and those kinds of things. But if you become a part of trying to solve those problems, you will progress. The opportunities will be there for you to progress. I just think right place, right time and right attitude, I guess, to really put myself in a position where I became valuable to the business. Therefore, I was able to reap firstly, obviously, salary, secondly, some stock options and thirdly, the most incredible progression path personally and professionally that enabled me to do ultimately what I wanted to do, which is start a business.

04:53

When was the time when you made a decision that put the company first, but that didn't also involve you being first there?

05:02

So many very unglamorous tasks walking around car parks, meetings in car parks, going to parking conferences in all depths of the world.

05:13

Parking conferences. Okay.

05:16

Yeah. That's the thing. I mean, Las Vegas Parking Conference, obviously, that was fun for me too.

05:22

I'm going to Vegas. Why? Parking conference.

05:24

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. It's huge. My point being, it was just like, "Okay, I'm in this random industry that I know nothing about. I'm just going to throw myself in, go to meetings up and down the country and figure out how this industry works." It doesn't matter that it's not glamorous. It doesn't matter that it's not sexy. What matters is solving the parking problem and solving the problem that customers face every day and we will do whatever it takes to solve that problem.

05:46

Where did you get that mindset from?

05:48

I don't know actually. I have no idea. It might be partly because just the way that I'm wired. I studied maths at university. I'm quite driven towards literally just solving problems and it's just another application of that I think in a more commercial setting. Obviously, it's not as black and white as a maths degree when you're in business, but there's a direction of travel and you're driving towards a point, right? That point is growth. That point is product market fit or whatever the stage the business is at. I've come from a relatively entrepreneurial family. I've got grandparents who had businesses, uncles who've set up businesses. That probably has an influence as well being around the outcome of what being entrepreneurial creates for.

06:39

Even if that's the case, it's still extraordinarily difficult to make the leap that you've made there where you've recognized that in order to truly pursue your best work, it's less about you and it's more about the company. I think that seems like a really big leap to take in something that's really difficult for a lot of people.

06:59

It's important to believe in something that's bigger than yourself, even if that's a business problem because otherwise, you'll be optimizing for the wrong thing. I think if you go into anything thinking, you know everything and it's all about you, it's the whole thing of not acknowledging what you don't know, you don't know. I think if you don't acknowledge that, it's probably one of the most dangerous things, because you will never stop learning when you're in business and you will never stop learning when you're in startups. There's always things. I mean, I've never once while being at Kitt felt like I'm actually on top of everything. Do you know what I mean? It's just not a feeling you have. I think if you're not comfortable with that feeling and you feel like you need to feel like you know everything, you should not be in a start up.

07:40

When did the moment come to start Kitt?

07:44

So obviously, I was at JustPark with Steve. Steve joined about a year after me. We worked really well together. It felt we had very complimentary skillsets, mindsets, and we'd helpfully thrashed that out at JustPark, which I think we were really lucky. I know lots of people don't actually have that privilege of working together before starting a business. I felt really lucky with that. I think we always both knew that we were on a similar journey. We both were at Just Part for that reason of wanting to eventually do something ourselves, not necessarily together, but it developed that way.

08:17

Did JustPark know that?

08:18

Yeah, to be honest, they were really supportive always of entrepreneurial people. I mean, Anthony is such an entrepreneur. That's his way. I think when we first started having a conversation with him about wanting to do something, he was always delighted for us more than thinking about the loss of JustPark, which is amazing. He's invested in Kitt as well, which is a testament to that.

08:42

Amazing.

08:42

Then in terms of Kitt itself, I think we wanted to solve a problem that we'd faced ourselves and honestly, I don't know what your real estate journey's been, but the real estate industry genuinely I think is the most behind out of any industries in terms of disruption and in terms of reorientating the products around the people that are actually buying the products. We just had a really terrible experience.

09:09

We raised some funding. We wanted to build a team, build a culture. We were deciding between WeWork and a lease. Decided we didn't want to WeWork because it was quite expensive and we felt we weren't really able to build that brand and culture in a WeWork building so we chose a lease.

09:26

For some reason, I just volunteered to put it all together. Didn't know anything about real estate. Nightmare. And yeah, it just felt literally everything was geared against us and we were being set up to fail every step. However, we also felt that we knew what building an amazing culture in a space with other people was. It was almost like the most difficult thing, but the biggest opportunity as well. We just felt that was a really big problem that needed solving. We jumped in and developed a few iterations on the idea until we got to the one that is today.

10:00

Had you thought about anything else other than Kitt before that?

10:03

We dabbled a little bit, but nothing. We dabbled a bit, but didn't get anything past idea stage, really. We were quite open minded. I know some founders have this really inspirational thing where they're like 'I had to go and solve this specific problem. I didn't think about anything else' how true that is, I don't know. But being completely honest with you, we knew we wanted to solve a big problem and this was one of the problems we looked at. The more we looked into it, the more we felt passionate that we were passionate about solving it just because it was a problem that we knew and felt passionately about. It was the most broken of all of the problems we were looking at because of where the industry is and that kind of thing.

10:51

So much of pursuing our best work is less about us and more about others in the same way that you have benefited hugely from JustPark and prioritizing JustPark above your own personal needs in so many moments. I guess, it's also about the people that you're on that journey with and it sounds so lucky that you met Steve. What was it about your working relationship with someone else that's enabled you to do your best work?

11:23

I don't know why anyone would want to do this alone firstly. There's so much room for second guessing yourself. There's so much room for not moving forward quickly enough because you're stuck in your own head. I think first things first, I really would encourage anyone looking to set something up to think about going down a route with a co-founder. When the times are bad, the times are really bad and it's really hard to pick yourself up from that. In terms of the two of us and the combo, I just think if you look at ... I don't know whether you've ever done the color wheel of personalities.

12:00

I haven't, no.

12:00

Or anything like that. Essentially, we are just very different. I think if you can find a way of working with someone who's really different to you, that's really, really powerful because it means that you're covering all bases, going back to the unknown-unknowns, not quite the same thing, but a similar concept. If you've got that person who's really, really different to you to throw ideas off and sense check things and discuss concepts and build strategy, you're going to end up in a better place because you've got all bases covered. I think it just allows us to see our blind spots and grow something in a productive way, let's say.

12:39

What are the downsides of thinking from such different perspective?

12:46

We do clash on things sometimes, but that's healthy, right? Again, it's just being passionate about coming from the side of a different angle and being passionate in a slightly different way. If you have a relationship with someone where there's never any tension or never any difficulties, it's probably not a very strong relationship.

13:04

Are there any other relationships in your own journey that have brought out your own best work?

13:10

I think if you're on a journey like this, you do have to make sure that your personal relationships allow for that as well. My husband's super supportive and the relationship we have has definitely allows for me to be all in on Kitt. I think making sure that people that are close to you personally are really up for it as well is really important because otherwise, if you have a strain in your personal life, you'll feel it in your professional life. It's going to be really, really hard to balance that. Yeah, I think making sure that any really important relationships to you professionally and personally, that everyone's aware of the journey you're on, and is up for it. That's been really helpful for me as well.

13:52

Do you have a working definition of what your best work is?

13:55

I'm not sure, really. I think I can say where I'm at my most engaged and happy, which I think is seeing tangible outputs to the problems we're solving. When we have done an illustration on the product or slightly reshaped the way that we're selling the product or something like that. Then you see the outcome, you see the customer at the other end, who's really benefited from that change. That is the best feeling in the world because you're solving a problem and it's not just a problem that nobody's going to benefit from. You are seeing tangibly the other side of it and I think that whole journey and probably part of the reason why I love having a startup and being in this world is it's because you do that all the time. If you go into a big corporate, it's much, much harder to do that and make those changes and really have that influence. I think that's probably me hopefully doing my best work, but certainly having the most fun.

14:50

Sounds like you've optimized for it at every point too. It strikes me that at JustPark, you've made the conscious decision to see it as a problem and an opportunity to solve a problem in the same way that at Kitt, it's a problem that you want to overcome. Though that might seem really natural to you, there are perhaps other people whose working definition of best work is spontaneity or that crazy moment of thought or ...

15:20

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I mean, that's probably true I think. Yeah, I guess that's my style maybe.

15:27

Has that been a conscious thought or it just come out natural?

15:31

I think it comes back to making sure you're doing the right thing for the business. If you are doing that, it becomes the problem solving thing as the natural progression from there, I'd say. That problem solving might be an idea like eureka moment. But for me, that's not the best work unless you see the outcome and you know that it works. A eureka moment is actually probably a very diluted version of what you'll end up once you've started testing it and getting feedback on it. Do you know what I mean?

16:08

Yeah. That's a great point. A Eureka moment is a diluted version of the actual place you'll end up, great point.

16:14

It should be really, unless you're ... well, no, whoever you are, that would be true even Elon Musk. His eureka moments I'm sure take a bit of time to get where they actually end up.

16:24

Does your definition of best work filter through into people at Kitt and if so, how so?

16:32

I hope so. I mean, yeah, I think it's something that we've talked a lot about recently actually. It's just around the values of the business and making sure that everyone knows what they are, what we're trying to do and we are both recruiting. Then when people are in we're managing people against those values. I don't want it to sound like dictatorship. I don't mean that at all. I'm just saying, we're building a business in a certain way and I think I would hope that everybody in the business embodied that way. I'm not saying we're perfect at all, but that's certainly something we've been talking about. Certainly something we'd like to really make sure we're doing.

17:10

I say it to people in interviews. If you have the right attitude, this is the best place to learn. A growing startup, just what it can offer you is unbelievable, but you need to come in with your eyes open and be very willing to get stuck in. Otherwise, you just won't reap those benefits and you'll probably feel like it's a bit of a crazy place.

17:33

Those people who come in and the people who you are looking to figure out whether they have that or not, whether they have that blank slate approach or not, what do you think makes the difference between someone who is right for this startup environment and someone who's not?

17:51

It comes back to the first point around priorities and what people get energy from. If you get energy and you prioritize your personal progression or you see it as a stepping stone in your career, it's probably not going to work out that well, because you just won't be optimizing for the right thing for the business.

18:12

All businesses, as long as they grow, they'll get to the point where they become more of a corporate. I think at that point, the trade off is very different. You'll be bringing in people for different reasons and that's totally natural. But I think when you're at your really early stage, if the people in the business aren't willing to really get stuck in and solve problems, the business just won't get to that stage because you need everyone to get stuck in and really help build. You can't afford to have people who are there for a stepping stone or there for a career move.

18:43

It's interesting that you've experienced the full spectrum of a working company or a working startup all the way from being the first employee to being the commercial director. Has your work and your working definition of your best work had to change as the company has grown?

19:06

Yeah, for sure. Not necessarily my personal definition, but the way it's applied, I'd say. As I said, businesses need different things at different times. I think making sure you are aware of that, and you are aware of your personal limitations or your personal growth opportunities in order to best serve the business.

19:30

Yeah, as a business moves through stages, not everybody that is in the early stage will be right or want to be right for the later stages and that's a really hard reflection. I think there's reflection point in growth where people who were there really early doors, who really did everything and got stuck in on everything, there'll be changes that happen. There'll be management structures brought in. There'll be processes that need to be put in place, which will make it feel less like it did at the beginning. Then that's what needs to happen to get the business to the next stage but it just might not be right for everyone.

20:07

I think it's really healthy to have that conversation. It's really healthy for everyone working for a startup to reflect on that. If you can get comfortable with it and say, "Yeah, this is a great opportunity for growth. This is a great opportunity for learning. It's just a different application of the challenge," then there's more opportunity to grow and progress and learn. But you need to acknowledge that otherwise, it can end up being a little bit of a internal toxic battle where it doesn't feel like it did, and it doesn't feel quite as fluffy or as family feel or whatever, but yeah, you just need to make sure you're fully aware of what you're going into and how the business needs to change.

20:44

How do you know whether you are the type of person who can scale through that?

20:47

You probably don't know, but that's fine. I think it's a question of whether you're up for it or not. If you're up for it, then you can go in with your eyes open, be aware of how it's going to change and be really resilient to the fact that it may or may not work out for you. But I think as long as you go in with your eyes open and the right attitude, then there's not really any downside other than a bit of ego bruising.

21:07

It comes clearly so naturally to you and I wonder if there are tools that you've used along the way to make it that bit easier.

21:15

I say it now, it definitely took me a while. I think my twenties was probably the place where I developed the most. Unfortunately, the British education system doesn't really equip me very well for real life is my view. I think I came out of education very naive and thinking just not really knowing anything about the world of work. I think it took me a really long time to understand that.

21:37

I just really encourage anyone particularly coming in a bit earlier just to encourage just to have a bit of perspective on everything. I think it's really easy to take things really personally. It's really easy to feel like it's saying something about ... Some negative feedback might be taken really, really personally and really emotionally. Every bit of negative feedback is an opportunity for growth. I think if you know about your areas for growth, you are so much more equipped to do anything than you were before you that feedback. It's not to say it's not difficult to hear because nobody likes to hear feedback that's negative. If you can find a way of changing the perspective on it and thinking, actually I'm aware of my blind spots here and I can make them better. That's just makes you bit of invincible, right?

22:24

The challenges that you face when you're moving from that early stage company at JustPark to the latest stage company, there must be some perhaps similarities and differences to Kitt now, and the types of people that you hire. What do you think makes someone really successful at the very, very, early stage?

22:51

At the very early stage, I think it's all about adaptability, I'd say. I think at the really early stage, there's a hell of a lot of things that need to be done. It's adaptability and ability to just sort of crack on and do things well. By things, I mean anything and everything. I know that that sounds like a bit of a cop out answer. You don't just sit there having a bunch of people running around like headless chickens, but it's more to say, you need generalists who are really capable because you just don't know what you're going to need them to do when you're trying to figure out what the business does.

23:23

I think moving through the journey, once you have a bit of an understanding of what the product is and who to sell it to and how, you're then looking at more specialists, but you've got to build all the processes that haven't been built yet. That, I think for us is the stage we're going through at the moment where there's some stuff in place, but there's a hell of a lot to do when it comes to processes.

23:43

We're really now trying to bring in people who have scaled teams before, who have built processes before, and know the right tools to use and can really help us scale a bit more seamlessly. That is a slightly different profile to the generalists who you want around you at the beginning. That's not to say generalists aren't important now as well, but it's just to say, you need to fill the gaps too.

24:06

Yeah. It sounds like it and I think it has taken something really special of you to scale, to start off as that generalist at JustPark scale through to become a specialist and then back again as a generalist.

24:25

I love that bit though.

24:28

I can't wait to hear how it goes next and thanks so much for sharing the whole story, Lucy.